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Signed up with Zen
26-08-2014, 08:40 PM
Post: #21
RE: Signed up with Zen
(26-08-2014 08:31 PM)prichardson Wrote:  Yes they do. However Openreach are governed by Ofcom rules.

There is a very clear line in the sand on where Openreach boundaries exist.

Your existing supply had the following chain of people.

You <-> Origin <-> DRL <-> Openreach

You hold no direct agreement with Openreach. You wouldn't like it if Openreach simply switched your service to Plusnet without you or Origin for than matter, ever asking.

Whilst it seems absolutely unfair and I absolutely feel for you as your options as restricted, why should you have greater power to ask Openreach to do something when Openreach don't have equal power themselves.

Not sure I understand - I am asking for a switch of service
Also DRL have ceased functioning completely, and Origin have ceased (in effect)

Surely Openreach are aware of this?
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26-08-2014, 08:57 PM
Post: #22
RE: Signed up with Zen
Ahh, yes, I see what you are referring to.

Correct, you have no broadband service, however this is a function of the fact that DRL have switched their network off.

However, the current situation is that DRL continues to take service from Openreach (in the form of the SLU service from the Openreach cab to DRL cab).

Until that service is requested to be removed, there is little you can do. Again, you hold no contract with Openreach, so you cannot instruct Openreach to remove the product DRL are paying for (you are no paying for it directly, just indirectly).

This leaves the following options.

A: Ask your phone provider to perform a stop/start of your phone line, which will have the correct effect. With no phone line (even if it is only for the few hours) is enough for Openreach to initiate the cease of the SLU service.

The contract between Openreach and DRL required that your phone line be active for that SLU service to remain alive. So, act by force to trigger the SLU removal by forcing a break in that contract.

B: Raise a complaint to Origin. By delaying this action, you are ultimately delaying what legal routes you have of pursuing anybody. Yes, the delay is only one day at a time, but your 8 week clock does not start until you do.

C: Get a new line. You can do this at any time at your own cost. However, in conjunction with point B, you also start to elevate your rights to pass on any charges. ADR schemes, Ofcom and likely the courts will take a dim view to not allowing Origin to put things right.

Overall, Origin have had chance to put things right, but at the end of the day have not.

However, you also have to draw a line the the sand, which does involve an ultimatum. So get in contact now.

You may not like the long winding road, you may not care for bureaucratic nonsense, however this nonsense protects you as much as it hinders, so take advantage of it early.
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26-08-2014, 09:06 PM (This post was last modified: 26-08-2014 09:07 PM by baz.)
Post: #23
RE: Signed up with Zen
(26-08-2014 08:57 PM)prichardson Wrote:  A: Ask your phone provider to perform a stop/start of your phone line, which will have the correct effect. With no phone line (even if it is only for the few hours) is enough for Openreach to initiate the cease of the SLU service.

This looks an interesting option
The phone line is with BT
How would I go about getting them to do this?

We only got the line from BT so we could get fibre from Digital Region
Previously we were with TalkTalk so they had to go
However we would of course prefer to keep the phone number...(!)
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26-08-2014, 09:13 PM
Post: #24
RE: Signed up with Zen
A stop/start process can retain the same phone number.

The start order will very likely require a number reservation, however they can reserve the same number (when a line is stopped, your number is with-held from the automatic allocation pool, but can be used for manual allocation).

The process may not be so straight forward with BT.

If you were to take Broadband with BT, they would take up your case with maybe a little fight as they generally know what they are doing at the different means available to them.

However, just to stop/start the phone may quite frankly leave them confused. Wouldn't you be if you got a call out of the blue that left yourself wondering "You want to what, stop the service, to start it a few hours later?". It not a normal thing to ask for,

I can only recommend trying.

Just to re-iterate though. The cease process this initiates on SLU takes just as long as if DRL requested it to begin with. It may also involve the tags process (as it would become a genuine left over record of a prior ceased service).

So don't expect that just because the phone stop/start is quite, the remainder is quite. It does however provide you an "in" that you quite clearly don't have right now.
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27-08-2014, 12:13 AM
Post: #25
RE: Signed up with Zen
@GrassHopper

Our guide did state that you could not migrate from Fibre to Fibre. There isn't a migration path for this.

@somecoolpc / @baz / @prichardson

Whilst I agree with Phil saying to get your complaint in writing, I'd also request your MAC Code in writing too. Ofcom rules state they must be given within 5 working days of requested. If Origin by this point have not provided one, you can raise your concern to Ofcom that they are refusing to issue you a MAC and have not even acknowledged your complaint...The more numbers that gets, the more Ofcom and the Ombudsman will get interested in.

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27-08-2014, 09:52 AM
Post: #26
RE: Signed up with Zen
@SpencerUK

Pointless.

Yes, the suggestion at a formal request is appropriate and I will stand by that recomendation.

However, "we are unable to provide a MAC due to the applicable network product no longer being available" is a valid response to this request. This satisfies General Condition 22 Annex 22A1.11(b), 22A1.11(d) & A1.11(e), provided they provide an explanation per A1.12.

For referance, the Ombudsman will not award default due to volume receipt of complaints. Every single complaint will be investgiated independantly and any bias shown in that investigation could result in the adjudicator being removed from the panel.

The single time this is not applicable is where instruction from Ofcom is received and this would not be an instruction to default award. General Condition 14 does not cover approval for Ofcom to stop the ADR process, though Communications Act 2003 does cover Ofcom stopping the ADR scheme in general, such as due to performance.

Ofcom note an interest in the outcome of the ADR process and use this for statistical reasons, but also for determining if there is a need to proceed with more direct intervention. This would not stop the ADR process.

For referance, provided Origin respond accoridng to Annex A of GC 22, then most ADR attempts on the grounds of no MAC alone, will fail.
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27-08-2014, 10:01 PM
Post: #27
RE: Signed up with Zen
I'd be very surprised @prichardson if Origin follow any Ofcom guidelines at all.

Hell, I'd go as far as saying they'll now quote the general conditions you mentioned as they read this forum.

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27-08-2014, 10:38 PM
Post: #28
RE: Signed up with Zen
@SpencerUK

Good. If it takes me pointing out their job to make them do it on all future queries, at least I know at little less disinformation is happening.
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28-09-2014, 10:21 PM
Post: #29
RE: Signed up with Zen
An update with my Fibre order with Zen, I successfully migrated from Origin to Zen ADSL and phone line with the MAC code Origin gave me which was done on 10/09. Have since been trying to move to fibre, but been having problems. Here's my latest email from Zen about the issue.

Quote:"The incompatible marker has not yet been removed therefore this order has not yet started to progress.

The case we had submitted came back closed and BT Openreach suggested we raise an ORDI. An ORDI is a robotic system used to resolve any issues or errors found on a line. Unfortunately the ORDI has also come back closed.

A second case has been raised today and we expect to receive further updates from BT Openreach over the next 48 working hours. As soon as any updates are received we shall make sure to keep you informed.

I do apologise for the inconvenience caused. It may be worth raising this issue with your PSTN provider as they may be able to arrange for this incompatible marker to be removed quicker than we can."

Is there anything I can do/say to Zen or anyone to try get this sorted, because it looks like Zen are just playing the waiting game with BT and I'm playing the waiting game with Zen.
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28-09-2014, 11:04 PM
Post: #30
RE: Signed up with Zen
Have a look at the BT ceo email thread. Your best Bet is to send an email to that address. That's what I did and things started moving alot quicker.
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