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My Origin connection so far
26-09-2014, 10:50 PM
Post: #31
RE: My Origin connection so far
(26-09-2014 10:05 PM)alexatkin Wrote:  ... you would also ban almost every Origin customer thanks to CGNAT...

And of course there are thousands of them
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27-09-2014, 12:02 PM
Post: #32
RE: My Origin connection so far
(26-09-2014 06:12 PM)circle of shred Wrote:  theres always a very LOUD minority who will complain. the silent majority chilled out a little. waitied and are probably all sat on the net right now.


it just appears that the admins on here are using this as their own personal speakers corner. and to the one to told me to f*** off.

keyboard warrior! fancy saying that to my face?

Spenceruk. there is NO DRL anymore. so no need for a DRL forum. this will wither and die way before Origin does..

It's a very rare occurrence where you get any customer communicating to an ISP to say, "hey you're doing an amazing job" because in the modern day that just doesn't happen. With respect to the silent people, is that because because they have given up?,is it because the majority of them used Facebook and can't comment on it now?..You don't have to look far on social media (Twitter) to see that people are still facing issues with Origin. I imagine you've seen those complaints?..I can take some further screenshots if you would like to see the recent lot?

Speakers Corner..maybe I should make a sub forum..would be a quite catchy name. FYI, if you would like to be called a keyboard warrior to your face, I honestly don't mind meeting you this weekend to tell it to your face, Hell, I'll meet you at a pub and buy you a pint at the same if this satisfies you?

I'm fully aware Digital Region has dissolved as of the 14th August 2014. Forum admins and members have had open discussions of how the forum should move forward but this has been put on the backburner for a while. However myself of the forum staff haven't had the time to undergoe a forum rebrand, update plugins etc nor at this minute feel its appropiate considering countless numbers of people are still using the forum as a resource to help try to get themselves connected again (tag issues).

I can't help but think you have pitchfork aimed for me so may I just publicly say, I'm very flattered Smile

(26-09-2014 06:55 PM)circle of shred Wrote:  your all so convinced your right you cant see the wood for the trees.


there are thousands of happy customers who have very little to comment on. i just like t shout out for them. you have all had far to much to say. doom and bloody gloom merchants.

why should i need a motive? what motive do you all have for predictint the death of an isp?

Well an ISP does something called communication as essentially. If said company can't communicate to its customers which as you know funds a business, then a customer will leave as there's no support...no support = no customers = no business.

Not that I want to put 2 and 2 together but when check this out;

   

Look at the hash tags...

   

Keyword...solvent restructuring....

(26-09-2014 10:44 PM)beermatt Wrote:  Hi all

Just wanted to add some weight to this argument, and further ruin Circle's feeble attempt at defending of them. Not to be offensive to Circle, everyone's entitled to their opinion and it's only fair that someone tries to stick up for them, but I get the impression you don't know the full story. Sometimes there's 2 sides to an argument and it's all a bit grey but in this case it's pretty clear that Origin have been absolutely terrible.

Before I start with my experience let me give you some background - I'm a computer technician and have worked in the industry for 14 years, I know how poor BT Openreach are and I'm no stranger to ISP problems. Often the poor ISPs get unneccessary abuse when it's Openreach's fault and I defend them. To be fair to Origin, they have been screwed a bit by BT Openreach, but their own handling of the situation has been awful.

So my story...

I was an Ask 4 Digital Region customer, who incidentally I can completely recommend. They gave an absolutely great service, but have unfortunately stopped doing resedential services so couldn't offer a replacement service. They were however very very helpful and up front with detailed information about the DR closure.

So I started looking for replacements. I didn't want the week's downtime associated with a cease and reprovision, I use my internet for everything, including an online backup of my local PC, remotely connecting to work, and have pretty poor broadband data signal where I live so not much alternative. So I looked into this migration to ADSL route. I asked round a few companies and it was clear the moving off DR thing wasn't going to be straight forward, but several offered to try the migration and I was hoping I could switch onto ADSL pretty seamlessly, but knew there was always a risk of a few days downtime.

After looking round, comparing prices etc (bad time to move, with the recent FTTC upgrades across the country, ISPs seem to have gone back to being very stingy with data allowances) there were several options, Origin being in the running. I thought I'l go with Origin - I like to support local businesses, they seem to have a good ethos, average prices, and as they have lots of DR customers already stand a better chance of getting the migration onto ADSL right compared to a company that's never worked with DR before.

So I phoned Origin and said I wanted to migrate to their ADSL - I had a MAC code and everything and was ready to go. But the salesperson at Origin said no don't worry they have a plan to seamlessly transfer all their Digital Region customers onto another fibre service. The phone call went on for a bit with me re-iterating multiple times that I might be better going down the ADSL route because I didn't want to risk the downtime of a cease ane reprovision etc, but no they asssured me they have loads of DR customers and don't worry a plan is already underway with BT to get them all seamlessly migrated accross. All I had to do was transfer my DR connection to them first, and come switchover day everything will be peachey. They can't promise no downtime, I might be offline for a few hours during the switch but that's all.

6 weeks. SIX BLOODY WEEKS I'VE BEEN DOWN!!!! Not the "little to no downtime, a few hours at the most" that I'd been promised.

I had options, I had alternatives, I originally wanted to migrate to ADSL. Months in advance before Openreach were inundated with the thousands of DR connections all going down at the same time. Origin clearly lied through their arse to me, and to what end I don't know because they clearly didn't have a solid plan, and lying about something like that is obviously not a way to get or keep customers!

Origin's incompetence and lies didn't stop at mis-selling it either....

False promise 2: I couldn't get through on the day it went down unsurprisingly, gave up after about 10 mins on hold thinking no problem something's obviously gone wrong, the lines will be flooded with people complaining, I'll patiently let them fix it. Next morning, no email from them either about the outtage, that's strange. Is it just me? Nothing on their website. Still coudln't get through. That afternoon I had to find out what was going on so I sat on hold for a long time....

Got through and was shocked to find out it might be down for up to a week. I rely on my internet, I have things to do. If they'd warned me it was going down I could've made sure evertyhing was up to date beforehand, ordered a Giff Gaff data dongle, and generally planned for a week without internet. This was going to be a nightmare.
False promise 4: But I patiently waited the full "up to a week" I was promised, still nothing. Still no emails, still nothing on their website, in fact at the time there was a big green light on the support page saying "no service issues at present"!! Phoned again, yes they're waiting for BT to remove the tags, it's going to be another couple of weeks. :-O Kicked up a bit of a fuss, but there's no point making the poor guy on the end of the phone's life a misery, I made it quite clear about how poor Origin's communication was, but I know what BT are like so I just asked them to keep on top of it.

False promise 4: A couple of more weeks passed, the maximum promised, and still nothing. Making a total of 3. No letter of apology from the MD on the website or via email explaining the situation and reassuring us that they are doing the best they can and putting the blame completely at Openreach's doorsteop. Nothing. Not a phone call with even an update. So I chased it again - still awaiting for BT to remove the tags. I didn't get a date this time but I was told "as soon as BT have removed the tags it should only take a few days to get an engineer booked and then I'd be back online".

I started to chase fairly regularly now, out of pure desperation. It's the year two thousand and ****ing fourteen, people need internet. All my bills and legal stuff is done by email, all my friends use social networking to keep in touch, we live in a paper free world to save the environment so we don't keep maps, phone books, paper copeis of documents, etc etc, everything is online. I'm an outdoorsy kinda guy I do sailing, canoing, etc; ride a motorbike, prefer talking to ppl in person than typing on a computer, I'm not someone who locks themselves in a room and never sees daylight. But we live in an online world, life revolves around it now, times have changed.

False promise 5: Anyway in one of those phone calls (of which all I should point out I was being polite and respectful throughout) I was told they had put me on the fasttrack list, and chasing was a good idea, it's given a kick in the right direction shouldn't be long now. And finally on Monday the 15th I get a reply to one of my emails - the tags have been removed wohoo!! FINALLY some progress, I know it's not over yet, but that was the big obstacle supposedly - tags have now been removed Smile Again asked them to keep me updated but nothing.

More bad news: Phoned to chase several times at different stages and was assured the order was with BT, just waiting for an engineer now. Finally TWO WEEKS after being told the tag had been removed, I chase it again, and a day later the person I spoke to came back to me to say she placed the order yesterday - so what happened to the one they said they were going to place as soon as the tags had been removed?? But the order has come back today and said the tag is still on the line, must have been an error on Openreach's system when it was originally said it'd been removed. They've asked for it to be removed again, but six weeks in and many false promises later and we have no idea how long it's going to be now.


So while Openreach are largely at fault here, Origin have really landed all their customers in it. Let me point out the multiple failures on origin's part:

First fail: They had a full year since DR announced it was going down. A FULL YEAR!! Whatever their migration plan was they should've started it straight away. If they left all of them to the last minute this was obviously going to put a massive strain on Openreach. They needed to start moving people early, gradually.

Second fail: By a month to go their super seamless migration plan must clearly have started to look a bit ominous, so they should've started with contingency plans. Starting to move customers off asap, migrating to ADSL, sending emails out, etc. But no they decided to leave everyone in the dark and do seamingly nothing about it even at this late stage in the day. They were going to leave it until the very last minute without any remedial action.

Third fail: A day or two before DR shutdown, it must've been clear without any shadow of a doubt to Origin that customers were going to experience downtime. Maybe even a week before but certainly a few days before or at the very very least 1 DAY BEFORE. At that point an email shoudl've gone out. All ISPs I've dealt with in my experience sends emails out warning of major operatoins that might cause downtime. They should've emailed their customers warning of a long impending down time so we could start ordering mobile dongles, doing updates, and making ofline copies of stuff, etc.

Fourth fail: On the day. Absolutely no excuse for this. On the actual day itself, they were getting flooded with phone calls but yet again no status message on their website, and no email going out to inform ppl. We were all left completely in the dark as to what was going on. Which incidentally only made life worse for them because it meant more phone calls.

Fifth fail: Within a few days afterwards their should've been an official statement from someone high up in the company apologising, explaining what had gone wrong and what they were doing to fix it. Explaining in as much detail as they could about the circumstances surrounding the problem, and reassuring customers they were doing all they could to resolve it. For an outtage on that scale it is shocking that there was no apology, no official statement, nothing.

Sixth fail: No updates. Ignoring the lack of official statement & apology for a minute, their should've at least been a technical update, informing us of the overall situation and scope fo the problems. Teling us what the response was from BT Openreach. Ideally individual updates to each customer, but if not at least a central one (email, website, etc) keeping us up to date with the situation on a whole so at least we knew where we stand and had a rough idea how long it was going to be down for.


If you think this is a little bit biased and a little bit emotional, YOU TRY BEING DOWN FOR SIX WEEKS WITH NO END IN SIGHT AND SEE HOW CALM YOU ARE ABOUT IT!!!

Worst thing is god knows how long it is before I'm back on now. Six weeks and the tags still apparently haven't been removed..... is it going to be another 4 weeks before the tags are removed? Then another 4 weeks for to book an engineer appt? Where does it end! I might be quicker moving house than waiting for this to come back up! I'm starting to make alternative arrangements for everything now including mobile broadband, traditional disk based backup, changes to my work schedule as I can't provide proper out of hours support which is probably going to cause a lack of earnings, etc; but none of these are suitable substitutions. Maybe for a week or so but not for this kind of timescale.


It is poor, as always, that BT Openreach have no accountability. You can't complain to them, you can't even complain to Ofcom any more. BT Openreach have a complete monopoly and are a total mess of a company. Again I've worked in the industry for years, and know how bad they are, have had many small businesses lose thousands of pounds from long internet outtages, and us poor technicians are sat in the middle having to face the wrath of our customers and not being able to do anything about it. I work for a large retailer now, and they're no different, again massive disruption to the business and lost earnings because it's simply not practical to put a leased line in every shop and the only other option is a regular BT connection. They have a complete monopoly and answer to no one. It would even be better if it wasn't privatised, even government run organisations aren't as bad as BT Openreach, at least they have to answer to the voters!! BT are a law to themselves.


That does wind me up as well, but lets make not mistake about this: Origin cannot use BT as a scapegoat. This was avoidable, it didn't have to be this bad. We had options, we had a year's notice. Origin could've done something about it, they've lied multple times, haven't apologised or released any official statement, and their communication and updates throughout the disaster have been none existent.

Welcome to the forum @beermatt

Have you raised an official complaint to Origin Broadband?, after 8 weeks of it being unresolved you could then go to CICAS Ombudsman

Regards
Spencer Davies
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27-09-2014, 03:02 PM
Post: #33
RE: My Origin connection so far
With all due respect and empathy towards those who are having these kinds of issues, if your internet connection is so important then why not order a new line? Sure it's probably going to cost £50 upfront (if you went with Plusnet for instance), but even to those on low income if the connection is that important surely £50 is not a huge amount to find to get back online.

Of course it doesn't help being told that your connection is going to be working soon, and to just wait a few more days or a week and it will be sorted. If it would have been me in the same situation I'd have sacked it off as a bad job after 1 week and just ordered a new line.

I assumed that there would be issues with moving from DR to a none DR connection so just ordered a new line and when that went in requested a cease on my DR connection, this resulted in zero downtime and even though I had to pay an initial £50 for the new line and also the difference between my cease and end of billing cycle, with Quidco cashback I was still "up" in ££ terms.
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29-09-2014, 02:05 PM
Post: #34
RE: My Origin connection so far
In fairness I think Origin just follow any potential customers on Twitter.

I have no doubt the business will fail though - their next accounts will be good reading (if they get that far).
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29-09-2014, 10:17 PM
Post: #35
RE: My Origin connection so far
(27-09-2014 03:02 PM)bgnx Wrote:  With all due respect and empathy towards those who are having these kinds of issues, if your internet connection is so important then why not order a new line?

Like you said, Origin had promised it would be seamless and foolishly we believed them.

Also, not every property can HAVE a new line. There have already been reports of refused orders due to lack of capacity for new line orders.

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29-09-2014, 10:41 PM
Post: #36
RE: My Origin connection so far
(29-09-2014 10:17 PM)alexatkin Wrote:  
(27-09-2014 03:02 PM)bgnx Wrote:  With all due respect and empathy towards those who are having these kinds of issues, if your internet connection is so important then why not order a new line?

Like you said, Origin had promised it would be seamless and foolishly we believed them.

Also, not every property can HAVE a new line. There have already been reports of refused orders due to lack of capacity for new line orders.

Then there are those who simply don't want to have a new line because we all thought it'd be done and we're living timescale to timescale in some cases, or we simply don't feel it's appropriate for us to have to buy a new line and then later go down the path of getting it removed, disconnected or whatever.

I mean I got a date of 09 September originally which was pushed back with no proposed date until I emailed them yesterday afternoon and got told my install date was 03 October. I've just checked the SK data and it's now changed to a C-State line compatibility (which means incompatible or active net product on the line) whereas it was Z-State before (line open for installation).

I'm now confused as heck as to whether it's actually been installed today while I've been at work, whether an engineer will need to visit (since I've got the faceplate from when they last visited, and an ADSL2+ modem-router - TP-Link WD-9890 as advised by Origin earlier in this whole escapade) or whether I can just get my details from Origin and start using my connection properly again. I have paid attention to the router and it doesn't look like it's trying to form a connection (as it would try to do if there was a connection but details were wrong or simply couldn't connect through to the main network) so I don't know if it's just that Openreach have locked the line in preparation for the install.
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30-09-2014, 10:08 AM
Post: #37
RE: My Origin connection so far
I didn't 'want' a new line.

I also didn't want to be without connectivity for an extended period of time and the writing was on wall really that SLU ---> anything else was going to be a headache!

I appreciate that if you are told something will be sorted by a specific date you expect it to be done, but as soon as that doesn't happen and your ISP starts to behave like Origin was/are surely then alarm bells would be ringing to me at which point it's time to take things into your own hands and order a new line.

If your property isn't able to take a new line then the Openreach engineer may do what they did with mine and just disconnect the DR line and use that as your *new* line. Not perfect or ideal but still does the job, no tags, no hassle.
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30-09-2014, 12:14 PM
Post: #38
RE: My Origin connection so far
(30-09-2014 10:08 AM)bgnx Wrote:  I didn't 'want' a new line.

I also didn't want to be without connectivity for an extended period of time and the writing was on wall really that SLU ---> anything else was going to be a headache!

I appreciate that if you are told something will be sorted by a specific date you expect it to be done, but as soon as that doesn't happen and your ISP starts to behave like Origin was/are surely then alarm bells would be ringing to me at which point it's time to take things into your own hands and order a new line.

If your property isn't able to take a new line then the Openreach engineer may do what they did with mine and just disconnect the DR line and use that as your *new* line. Not perfect or ideal but still does the job, no tags, no hassle.

Isn't that essentially slamming the line thereby losing your phone number? That's never been an option since we've had it for over 20 years.
I also haven't been completely without connectivity, been using a Knowhow SIM with unlimited data for the time being, but that expires in a few days if not today so I'll be on a 10GB cap for a month - which isn't a problem if Friday genuinely is my install date. Mobile wifi is unstable and not particularly fast (3G in a moderate-good connection area) but it beats a kick in the nads and having no connection at all.

I don't have any sort of inside track on the issues, but I know how many different factors and departments can be involved in even simple requests. Working in a billing, accounts and general customer queries department, I know that if for example they request a copy of a bill, it has to be sent off to one of our back office departments which then route it through to another team which then submit it to outbound mailing. If they want to see what charges there are for a non-standard time period/custom bill, then there's something like another 3 teams involved in that. Working on the phones for a utility company, I know just how much we can actually see on the systems but I also know that things outside of our department often aren't updated to the point we can see them so we're left in the lurch with what to tell customers. That's why I'm not angry at the guys working there. I'm angry at how they handled the situation and their official stance and statements on it, and I definitely don't think the business awards are in any way warranted after all this. There's a few people inside Origin who I've spoken to on the phones over the years that I'd definitely hand a CS award to though.

With DR, there were Thales, the ISP's, BT, Openreach and pretty sure a number of others. In each of those there'll be different departments (particularly in the case of Openreach) so we're probably talking somewhere in the region of 35 different stages overall. With so much distance to cover, I figured it was better to deal with a slow but workable connection and let Openreach and Origin just get on with it rather than rush into things, lose our phone number in order to get my net back in maybe what, 3 weeks if lucky and then deal with the costs AND contacting everyone to let them know our new number.

I'm not defending what's happened at all, but having only contacted Origin 3-4 times, I've at least felt like progress has been ongoing albeit extremely slowly. When things are out of timescale then I get as pissed as everyone else but sometimes it's easier to just accept when things are in the hands of another company (such as Openreach) instead of going off on one and making things worse.

Being honest, before DR fizzled, the guys at Origin were always fantastic. When my connection was unstable, they got it sorted within the day, often immediately while I was on the phone with them (i.e. new line profiles being committed). When I asked for my connection to have a cap on it to stop the stability issues after it had been investigated months ago, they just did it, no questions asked. After DR fizzled, well, only contacted them a few times and while the silence they've officially held on the matters at the start was more than frustrating, I've never felt like the guys working the phones have ever been dishonest with me.

I can't respect bad business, but I can respect that good CS can save a business and give them a second chance. If they blow that, then they're done for.
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30-09-2014, 01:13 PM
Post: #39
RE: My Origin connection so far
(30-09-2014 12:14 PM)SPritchard Wrote:  Isn't that essentially slamming the line thereby losing your phone number? That's never been an option since we've had it for over 20 years.


I had an MPF connection so no phone number associated with it, I've not used/needed a landline since I got a mobile way back when. If you need your number then fair enough, although unless it's being used for business I can't imagine a change in number being much hassle even if it's been use for 20 years, isn't that just not wanting change?

I was speaking more broadly to be honest, there are lots of people complaining that they have had no connection for 6 weeks and they cannot do without internet and they have had no option etc. My point was that if you really do rely on your internet connection, then you will in most cases have had the power to get back online, albeit costing you a few quid.
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30-09-2014, 08:01 PM (This post was last modified: 30-09-2014 08:03 PM by beermatt.)
Post: #40
RE: My Origin connection so far
If Origin had been honest with me in the first place and said it will probably be about a month, then yes at that point I would've ordered a new line. They could've even told us that a week before it went down giving us a head start.

According to BT's website "If a brand new line needs to be installed then it usually takes up to 15 working days from the time that your order. It could take longer depending on the availability but this is very rare. "

But I've heard horror stories of it taking months and months. The thing is, if we're waiting on Openreach to remove the tags and activate the lines... surely it's quicker to do that than install a new one? So why would ordering a new one get done faster? I'm not saying it won't, the Openreach management are clearly completely incompetent so it wouldn't surprise me if it's quicker to get a new one....... but it wouldn't surprise me if it isn't either! Where I live running a new cable from the telegraph post and through the wall would be quite a job, it's an old house. Reconnecting the current one to a "new" line in the local box might be possible, but none of it instills me with confidence.

Thanks for the suggestion (any suggestions are welcome no matter how desperate!!), but I'm just not convinced that's going to be any quicker, and impatiently ordering a new line might just get me in more of a mess in the long run. I'd rather just stick with the proper way of doing it. Which shoudn't in *theory* be any slower. If BT say a new line could take longer than 15 working days "depending on availability" and their South Yorkshire engineers are already busy running round the thousands of Digital Region connections that have just died, I imagine availability is quite poor at the moment! Also does the new line installation time include broadband activation time? Not necessarily, that might only be the timescale for the physical line, you may then face another long wait for broadband to be activated.

You may still be right, it might still be quicker.... but then again it might not! Personally I don't want to risk it, not this far in.


Spencer, I guess an official complaint is different to my regular emails and phone calls? I guess it just needs to have "official complaint" in the subject lol? Trying to work out the exact date (it's that long ago I've forgotten!) I think it was 14th August so not far off 8 weeks now. Not that CICAS or Ombudsman can do anything about it anyway but worth a try!
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