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Origin - Pre-activation Questions
28-11-2012, 05:49 AM
Post: #1
Origin - Pre-activation Questions
Hey all,
Just ordered the 40/2 service from Origin, and can't wait. Estimated lead times were very good when i asked via the post-order call -- 6-7 days in some cases (thank the tech gods for in-document PDF editing of the order form!). I've been on Demon since 2005, going from 2Mb/s to 8Mb/s to the current 20Mb/s (getting 778Kb/s, 4.2Mb/s and 11.6Mb/s respectively), Wannado before that (56K!) but we were with Freeserve when they switched over. Now i'm looking to the future and it was really out of asking the "When will FTTC be in our area?" that i noticed Digital Region had gained residential ISP's since i last asked. I considered LBO, but i don't need 10Mb/s upload, and saving a few quid a month is enough incentive. They did provide good presales service, and it was a difficult choice for that reason, but Origin edged ahead with the price difference.

While i'm in the 'kid at Christmas limbo' of waiting though, i'm curious about a few things, but 1 in particular. It's a long-winded question, but that's mainly due to it being a somewhat unique situation.

I've got a Belkin Surf wireless modem-router from my current ADSL2 connection. I'm very in touch with it's interface and prefer it much over any other brands i've used (not least Zyxel, though the dodgy wifi connection with iPhone and iPad didn't make it any more appealing). I've used Belkin for years but this router was bought to replace a 6 year old Belkin that had stability issues with my current ISP (Demon) who i've left out of need for more speed (i'm 650M from the exchange and so my speeds are at 11Mb/s out of 20Mb/s).

My main PC is upstairs, and there's absolutely no way i'm prepared to move it. This isn't something that can be negotiated under any circumstances. In the same room, i've got a phone line connection point which i believe is hardwired to the master socket which is downstairs. As far as i'm aware, it was connected right into the socket itself, and is NOT done via an external splitter or such. Either way, we've had no problems with connections like this for the 3 years it's been this way. It was my dad that hooked it up as opposed to an engineer, but he's very OCD about DIY being perfect and not something you'd see on 'DIY SOS' or such. Electrics and anything socket related are something he takes extra care with though for obvious reasons.

We've also got a laptop in the house (parents) which they use downstairs via wireless, and my iPhone and iPad which are usually in the same room as the PC when in use. There's no consoles in the house to consider. As implied earlier, i refuse to use Zyxel for the simple reason that it's wireless has major issues with iOS devices, while Belkin is perfect. It's been mentioned elsewhere that this is down to the chipset used by Zyxel to handle authentication and encryption, but i can't verify this.

With that in mind, would it be an issue to plug the cellpipe into the connection in my room, and then hook it up to the belkin router via LAN cables or such? As i've already got a long RJ11 cable (RJ11 at both ends), would it be possible to hook the cellpipe to the RJ11 port on the Belkin router, or would i need to buy a long RJ45 cable to hook from the cellpipe to the Belkin? If so, would it need to be patch or crossover? I don't mind if i do need to take that route, i just need to know which type i'd need to buy. If it's different ports, what cable would i need to buy? And just out of curiosity, would i need to mess about disabling DHCP on the Belkin router, or does the cellpipe literally just handle the modem side (and thus DHCP would be enabled in the router)?

I'd rather not have the need for the cellpipe to be connected directly to the downstairs socket, as trailing a LAN cable downstairs just to hook it into a router upstairs just to hook it up to my PC is both a lot of hassle, and potentially a trip hazard. I maintain that the socket upstairs should suffice, but time will tell. It might be possible to get my dad to lift the floorboards to hook one to downstairs, but i'm not sure he'd be willing to do that and so try not to assume that as an option.

I'm also keen to avoid using wireless for the main PC as that means buying an adapter and a whole host of other issues i'd prefer to avoid (drivers, future OS support, and least not speed loss and potential interference), and as said, i'd much prefer to use my existing Belkin Surf router over what i'm told is "a cheap piece of crap" (but then again, all ISP-provided routers are on the extremely cheap end).

Again, sorry for it being so long winded, but preparation for the biggest broadband upgrade of my life has me very excited (and the 2L of Pepsi i drunk less than an hour ago, regardless of the time, is definitely an assailant!), least not for Steam and the flexibility to delete games (my calculations comparing my current actual speed with Demon with my maximum potential from Origin pitch me at over 1hr 40m less time to download a large game, though actual results may vary).

Cheers,
Scott.
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28-11-2012, 08:27 AM (This post was last modified: 28-11-2012 10:08 PM by bgnx.)
Post: #2
RE: Origin - Pre-activation Questions
Any internal extension cabling is likely to cause speed/stability problems. With VDSL it can greatly affect the speeds you receive. (A friend of mine that was recently connected was getting around 17Mbit via a wired in extension upstairs, when connected direct to the master socket the speeds shot up up 32Mbit!)

Furthermore, any problems that you do happen to have, origin's first step will be to ask you to connect direct to the test port behind the faceplate of the master socket.
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28-11-2012, 08:43 AM
Post: #3
RE: Origin - Pre-activation Questions
I think you'll have to suck it and see (try various options). I've got my cellipipe in the living room, connected to an extension cable which runs under the carpet to the hall and then plugged into the test socket. DSL filter is at the cellpipe end. I sync at full speed for my package. When I was on O2 if I used the master plate socket rather than the test socket then my download dropped from around 4 to 3.
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28-11-2012, 02:52 PM
Post: #4
RE: Origin - Pre-activation Questions
(28-11-2012 05:49 AM)SPritchard Wrote:  ....

With that in mind, would it be an issue to plug the cellpipe into the connection in my room, and then hook it up to the belkin router via LAN cables or such? As i've already got a long RJ11 cable (RJ11 at both ends), would it be possible to hook the cellpipe to the RJ11 port on the Belkin router, or would i need to buy a long RJ45 cable to hook from the cellpipe to the Belkin? If so, would it need to be patch or crossover? I don't mind if i do need to take that route, i just need to know which type i'd need to buy. If it's different ports, what cable would i need to buy? And just out of curiosity, would i need to mess about disabling DHCP on the Belkin router, or does the cellpipe literally just handle the modem side (and thus DHCP would be enabled in the router)?
...

You definitely can't use your ADSL2 router with Digital Region. It doesn't have a compatible WAN interface. You need a "Cable" style router that has a RJ45 WAN port rather than RJ11.

Cheers,

Lee - (back to ADSL2+ because of the DR closure)

ASK4 DR:Back to ADSL2+
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28-11-2012, 10:33 PM
Post: #5
RE: Origin - Pre-activation Questions
Cheers for the responses so far guys, i'd like to follow up and try to find a solution that might work for me.

(28-11-2012 02:52 PM)vit0 Wrote:  
(28-11-2012 05:49 AM)SPritchard Wrote:  ....

With that in mind, would it be an issue to plug the cellpipe into the connection in my room, and then hook it up to the belkin router via LAN cables or such? As i've already got a long RJ11 cable (RJ11 at both ends), would it be possible to hook the cellpipe to the RJ11 port on the Belkin router, or would i need to buy a long RJ45 cable to hook from the cellpipe to the Belkin? If so, would it need to be patch or crossover? I don't mind if i do need to take that route, i just need to know which type i'd need to buy. If it's different ports, what cable would i need to buy? And just out of curiosity, would i need to mess about disabling DHCP on the Belkin router, or does the cellpipe literally just handle the modem side (and thus DHCP would be enabled in the router)?
...

You definitely can't use your ADSL2 router with Digital Region. It doesn't have a compatible WAN interface. You need a "Cable" style router that has a RJ45 WAN port rather than RJ11.

Cheers,

I'm not sure if i'm asking the same question here, but does the cellpipe not simply have a WAN connection port (to connect to the actual "phone" line) and then a separate LAN port to connect to the router (or to connect directly to a system in the event you don't require wireless or routing capabilities)? Or are there some technical differences with how the data is sent from the cellpipe that make it incompatible with my existing Belkin router?

So, let me explain; Phone Master Socket > CONNECTED TO > Cellpipe > CONNECTED TO > Belkin Router via LAN port
Skipping the RJ11 port on the Belkin router entirely. Again, apologies if that's the same question rephrased. I've been unable to find any specific info on the cellpipe, let alone pictures, so i've no real idea what i'm dealing with.

Regardless of all this, would a "Powerline" setup be compatible or suitable for use with the Cellpipe? It's something i've never looked into and thus i'm unsure of whether it requires a specific powerline-compatible service or whether it's suited for connecting to any existing network. For example, http://www.ebuyer.com/370669-tp-link-tl-...l-pa411kit states that it's simply a 10/100Mbps Ethernet Port on both adapters, but if it's indeed a compatible solution to potentially solve the need to go trailing cables around and having the cellpipe connected directly to the master socket, it's something that would certainly provide a solution to my situation. I'd still need to know whether or not i'd be able to use my Belkin router with this by connecting it to the other powerline adapter, something like this;
Phone Master Socket > CONNECTED TO > Cellpipe > CONNECTED TO > Powerline Adapter downstairs > CONNECTED TO > Powerline Adapter upstairs > CONNECTED TO > Belkin Router

Thanks again guys Smile
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28-11-2012, 10:52 PM
Post: #6
RE: Origin - Pre-activation Questions
The problem with that set up is that your ADSL router's WAN port is the RJ11 port, therefore when your machines are connecting to the router, the router will attempt to send out traffic bound for the internet via the RJ11 port - as nothing is plugged into that port it won't get anywhere!

The cellpipe is used as a bridge, it syncs the VDSL connection and you then need to connect a device to LAN port 1 on the cellpipe that is capable of terminating a PPPoE session.

You could connect a laptop directly to cellpipe and set up PPPoE via that but this would only allow that one device to get online so wouldn't be practical.

You'll want to connect up a cable router to the cellpipe which will provide you with connectivity to multiple devices - I believe Origin send you a TP Link TL-WR741ND - whilst these are cheap and low spec, they aren't too bad - the interface is better than some other manufacturers - some of TP Link's higher spec models are decent bits of kit - TL-WR1043ND for example.

If you're set on Belkin then there will be a wide variety of models that they offer.
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29-11-2012, 12:20 AM (This post was last modified: 29-11-2012 12:21 AM by SPritchard.)
Post: #7
RE: Origin - Pre-activation Questions
(28-11-2012 10:52 PM)bgnx Wrote:  The problem with that set up is that your ADSL router's WAN port is the RJ11 port, therefore when your machines are connecting to the router, the router will attempt to send out traffic bound for the internet via the RJ11 port - as nothing is plugged into that port it won't get anywhere!

The cellpipe is used as a bridge, it syncs the VDSL connection and you then need to connect a device to LAN port 1 on the cellpipe that is capable of terminating a PPPoE session.

You could connect a laptop directly to cellpipe and set up PPPoE via that but this would only allow that one device to get online so wouldn't be practical.

You'll want to connect up a cable router to the cellpipe which will provide you with connectivity to multiple devices - I believe Origin send you a TP Link TL-WR741ND - whilst these are cheap and low spec, they aren't too bad - the interface is better than some other manufacturers - some of TP Link's higher spec models are decent bits of kit - TL-WR1043ND for example.

If you're set on Belkin then there will be a wide variety of models that they offer.

Ah, that explains it. I understand now. I'd assumed that i'd be able to route into the cellpipe using the LAN ports of the Belkin, neglecting to consider that it expects to interact with the internet via the WAN port.

I was set on the Belkin, and i'm comfortable with it, but now it's been explained, it's not such a big deal if i need to switch. Since the Origin-supplied TP-Link isn't as bad as i initially thought (reading around, i've learnt that they switched from supplying a different model some months ago), i might consider sticking with it once the service is installed. Since you mentioned it, would just about any cable router be compatible with the cellpipe? And since it was specifically mentioned, the TL-WR1043ND would be compatible with the service, correct?

I'll consider having the cellpipe and router downstairs if needs be, but i still need a solution to connecting my system upstairs besides potentially unreliable wireless.

If i was to use the supplied cellpipe and supplied router (or the cellpipe and a self-purchased cable router), would Powerline be an option? I'd assume it works regardless of the type of network you're using, but i just want to be sure.

One last question regarding the supplied TP-Link router; Has anyone had any issues regarding iPhones or iPads randomly "dropping connection"? My old Zyxel ADSL router had this problem. The iOS devices would work flawlessly for 15-20 minutes, but after that, they showed that they were connected but couldn't actually communicate until the wifi was disabled and then re-enabled. This didn't happen on either of my Belkin routers (the 6+ year old one, or the new 2 month old one), so i've been very wary of other brands since then.
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29-11-2012, 12:35 AM
Post: #8
RE: Origin - Pre-activation Questions
Any cable router should be compatible, the ISP is unlikely to support any router other than the one they provide however so if you do get a different router make sure you keep hold of the one they supply for troubleshooting purposes.

I've used D-Link and TP-Link products with no problems, but they do seem to be much of a muchness and more personal preference than anything. I prefer to use seperate modem, router and wifi AP components (Currently Superhub in modem mode/Mikrotik router/TP-Link AP) - again this isn't necessary, more personal preference.

I've not used powerline adaptors as I've not heard particularly favorable reviews on them (from friends/colleagues) but others on here may have used them and be able to give more advice.
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29-11-2012, 10:18 AM
Post: #9
RE: Origin - Pre-activation Questions
There's a few topics on the subject of Powerline adaptors throughout the forums. I personally use them in my house and have found the TP-Link 200Mbps Powerline adaptors to work very well.

I use them in the following setup:

Master Socket -> Netgear Modem/Router -> Powerline Adaptor Network -> Netgear Gigabit Switch -> HP Microserver, iMac, XBOX 360, PS3, Apple TV, Cisco SIP Phone, etc

Also off the Powerline Adaptor Network is another adaptor with a Netgear 10/100 switch and my printer, etc. This has served me very well.

I would probably suggest using this configuration rather than the: Phone Master Socket > CONNECTED TO > Cellpipe > CONNECTED TO > Powerline Adapter downstairs > CONNECTED TO > Powerline Adapter upstairs > CONNECTED TO > Belkin Router that you were thinking of just because if you decide to extend your Powerline Adaptor Network you'd end up mixing your LAN and WAN traffic. Also from a diagnostic standpoint, you'll soon get irritated with running up and down the stairs all the time!

If you're concerned about Wi-Fi coverage, there's always the TP Link TL-WPA281KIT AV200 Powerline Extender with Wireless N Access Point Starter Kit which includes one normal Powerline adaptor and a Wireless Powerline Adaptor. You could use this to either extend your Wi-Fi network downstairs on the router or create a separate one for upstairs depending on your preference. They are a bit more expensive but it is an option. I'm looking to replace the one on my printer for one of the Wireless ones as my coverage upstairs is a little patchy (hence why the printer is using the Powerline adaptor instead of it's built-in Wireless).

ISP: Plusnet | Router: Mikrotik 2011UAS-2HnD-IN | Sync: 50Mbit/15Mbit | PCP: 600m | Exchange: Mosborough
Server: HP Microserver, Aspire V5-171
PC: MacBook Pro, ThinkPad X220
OD: Plex, Chromecast, Roku 2 XS, NowTV, YouView, PS4
Mobile: iPad, LG G3, Nexus 5


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29-11-2012, 01:39 PM
Post: #10
RE: Origin - Pre-activation Questions
There seem to be a range of feelings regarding the Origin Supplied Router - this thread covers most of them Confused

My own personal experience is that the wireless connection is unreliable. I suffer repeated and irregular drop outs where the wireless client just can NOT connect to the router. This happens randomly and even happens during use. ie - I connect, start browsing and then at some point I lose connection! This is only resolved by a router reboot. Very inconvenient and very annoying.

I reported this to Origin and their checks revealed that the Cellpipe had been rock solidly connected to the network throughout.

Barrie_____________________________________
Dreaming the Life rather than Living the Dream Big Grin
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