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essenby · 16-01-2013, 11:02 AM

Have to say that maybe I'm too easily pleased but the only issue I've had with DR/Origin is the {censored} router they provided me with - the wireless net would randomly disconnect requiring a reboot. Since I replaced it with a Netgear WNDR3700 I've had no such problem (touch wood).

That said - if PN had offered me any sort of fibre connection I would never have left them Confused

tekmobile · 16-01-2013, 11:39 AM

(16-01-2013 11:02 AM)essenby Wrote: Have to say that maybe I'm too easily pleased but the only issue I've had with DR/Origin is the {censored} router they provided me with - the wireless net would randomly disconnect requiring a reboot. Since I replaced it with a Netgear WNDR3700 I've had no such problem (touch wood).

That said - if PN had offered me any sort of fibre connection I would never have left them

I'm happy where I am with @littlebigone but unless they can match the price of the other BT fibre providers or all least give me what I paid for which was what mine line can handle instead of this 70Mbit limitation then I won't have much choice

***SpencerUk*** · 16-01-2013, 02:37 PM

(16-01-2013 01:41 AM)ash45 Wrote:
(15-01-2013 10:28 PM)tekmobile Wrote:
(15-01-2013 10:05 PM)mirdragon Wrote:
(15-01-2013 09:55 PM)ash45 Wrote:
(15-01-2013 08:04 PM)mirdragon Wrote: Even with PN you can get so much around 250-300GB a month peak-time usage and unlimited off-peak usage for a reasonable price and TBH, the pricing on Digital Region needs to be brought inline with the big players to bring in more custom, but they also need to sort out the current network issues that keep plaguing users.

PN is now unlimited 24/7 with no traffic shaping (though they do still have prioritisation for voip and gaming) my upgrade to unlimited gos threw 22nd this month no more limits, now paying £19.99, and getting a lot better service with PN than i had wih LBO for £35

Ash

I thought many times about going back with PN, I still have my F9 account with them and never really had problems with them before. I knew they were looking at removing the limit (similar to BT when they initially increased infinity to 300GB limit), but weren't sure when

This is the thing, users that have left the network have found the service to be better using BT Fibre compared to the DR Fibre which is supposed to be a far superior service, which says to me there must be something wrong with the DR Network as a whole for this to happen.

Does PN cap at the same speeds as infinity 2 because I may look at changing when my contract is up with LBO if I can get truly unlimited

yea its 80/20 same as infinity, unlimited 80/20 is 19.99 and 40/10 with 40gig limit is 15.99, TBF even if you can only get less than 40meg the 80/20 product is better value just because its unlimited lol

PN packages

Ash

It's time sensitive traffic management or something now.

More info on that here

You only get throttled back when the Network suffers some bad event from what I know anyway..but if you have the pro add on still (which IMO is useless until this such scenario pops up), it overrides the throttle

(16-01-2013 11:02 AM)essenby Wrote: Have to say that maybe I'm too easily pleased but the only issue I've had with DR/Origin is the {censored} router they provided me with - the wireless net would randomly disconnect requiring a reboot. Since I replaced it with a Netgear WNDR3700 I've had no such problem (touch wood).

That said - if PN had offered me any sort of fibre connection I would never have left them

I don't have any issue with my DR backup line only that it's very erratic with performance and stability.

alexatkin · (This post was last modified: 17-01-2013 12:28 AM by alexatkin.)

I am actually a little concerned at the idea that BT have switched to "only when things go pear shaped" throttling, as that sounds an awful lot like what Virgin Media do and the results in their case means you can spend months on a next to useless connection, until they feel like fixing the problem.

On the other hand, if BT prices come down and there are continued positive reports of their service - it would be something I would consider.

PlusNet is a harder sell, I find it hard to trust them as they first introduced traffic shaping while I was still with them. It should hardly ever have kicked in according to their rules, but instead it permanently capped my Usenet at 32K/s, when it was only supposed to do so once I had done x amount of traffic in a month. Nobody seemed to have any solution, so I left.

Back on topic, I called up Origin yesterday to discuss the new line cards. Unfortunately, as expected, they had nothing new to say about it except that they will let their Max customers know once they can roll out the upgrades.

So the question really is what will come first, BT offering Infinity Max, or Digital Region rolling out the upgrades so we finally get the Max service ISPs are claiming to sell.

For the record, I don't NEED faster than 70Mbit by any means, but as I am paying for a package claimed to be "the maximum your line can handle", I bloody well expect to receive it. Its the principle of the thing.

Also, while the lack of Dynamic Line Management can result in Digital Region connections being LESS stable than BT, there are positives of that approach as well.

For example on BT if you have temporary noise on your line the DLM will crank up your SNR margin and interleaving to compensate. This is great to keep you connected, but a PITA when it can stay at that settings for a long time after the original fault that triggered it has been resolved.

For the most part, I can totally understand why BT have DLM, as it makes the service more or less zero maintenance and keeps people lines working under all but the worst of line faults, where a Digital Region connection would crap out entirely. But then there are lines like mine that do still trigger a certain number of errors that could fall afoul of DLM. On Origin it works perfectly fine "most of the time", with no interleaving, and in fact it would never have problems if only Digital Region would allow us to request different SNR margin profiles like Be do.

I highly suspect once a new NOC comes they will develop some sort of DLM for the network though, which kinda sucks for power users. By then I might seriously be considering Fibre on Demand as while its an expensive initial outlay, once its done it should last a lifetime and prevent you ever having to worry about silly DSL profiles every again.

***SpencerUk*** · 17-01-2013, 12:42 AM

(17-01-2013 12:16 AM)alexatkin Wrote: I am actually a little concerned at the idea that BT have switched to "only when things go pear shaped" throttling, as that sounds an awful lot like what Virgin Media do and the results in their case means you can spend months on a next to useless connection, until they feel like fixing the problem.

On the other hand, if BT prices come down and there are continued positive reports of their service - it would be something I would consider.

PlusNet is a harder sell, I find it hard to trust them as they first introduced traffic shaping while I was still with them. It should hardly ever have kicked in according to their rules, but instead it permanently capped my Usenet at 32K/s, when it was only supposed to do so once I had done x amount of traffic in a month. Nobody seemed to have any solution, so I left.

To my knowledge, the brief I got given was that there's no longer any line restrictions on the new packages, however when there's a major network issue on Plusnet internally, an action plan comes into play. You're better probably asking that type of stuff on the customer forums anyway.

(17-01-2013 12:16 AM)alexatkin Wrote: Back on topic, I called up Origin yesterday to discuss the new line cards. Unfortunately, as expected, they had nothing new to say about it except that they will let their Max customers know once they can roll out the upgrades.

I feel for the ISP's on Digital Region. I bet its trying to get blood out of a stone info wise.

(17-01-2013 12:16 AM)alexatkin Wrote: So the question really is what will come first, BT offering Infinity Max, or Digital Region rolling out the upgrades so we finally get the Max service ISPs are claiming to sell.

For the record, I don't NEED faster than 70Mbit by any means, but as I am paying for a package claimed to be "the maximum your line can handle", I bloody well expect to receive it. Its the principle of the thing.

Also, while the lack of Dynamic Line Management can result in Digital Region connections being LESS stable than BT, there are positives of that approach as well.

For example on BT if you have temporary noise on your line the DLM will crank up your SNR margin and interleaving to compensate. This is great to keep you connected, but a PITA when it can stay at that settings for a long time after the original fault that triggered it has been resolved.

For the most part, I can totally understand why BT have DLM, as it makes the service more or less zero maintenance and keeps people lines working under all but the worst of line faults, where a Digital Region connection would crap out entirely. But then there are lines like mine that do still trigger a certain number of errors that could fall afoul of DLM. On Origin it works perfectly fine "most of the time", with no interleaving, and in fact it would never have problems if only Digital Region would allow us to request different SNR margin profiles like Be do.

Could you not just change package to a 40/10 and just wait it out for the time being. Save a bit of cash since you don't need the bandwidth?

(17-01-2013 12:16 AM)alexatkin Wrote: I highly suspect once a new NOC comes they will develop some sort of DLM for the network though, which kinda sucks for power users. By then I might seriously be considering Fibre on Demand as while its an expensive initial outlay, once its done it should last a lifetime and prevent you ever having to worry about silly DSL profiles every again.

Minimum cost of a grand isn't it?.
Still couldn't justify it myself as you don't know what the future holds property wise.

17-01-2013, 01:24 AM

(15-01-2013 08:04 PM)mirdragon Wrote:
(15-01-2013 09:16 AM)Dearne Ranger Wrote: But of course, people on Infinity (and Infinity 2, and so on) are troubled by packet-shaping, throttling, data transfer caps and all sorts of other nonsense. Some relatives have Infinity 2 at something like 75Mbps - but there's a 40GB limit on their account. What use is that?

Perhaps my DR connection is slower than I might get on Infinity (in a totally hypothetical situation - as Infinity doesn't reach my town!) but I'm willing to trade that off for the no-worries service I get with Origin. If I wanted to leave my machine on all day and night streaming and downloading and seeding and things, I could. (I don't, of course. I go to work, turn off the PC and respect the other network users. But I could, with no worries of letters telling me off.)

I have no problems with packet-shaping, throttling, data transfer caps and all sorts of other nonsense. In fact since moved away from Digital Region and back to BT Infinity 2, I've actually seen packet-shaping, throttling and all other sorts of nonsense that I had while on Digital Region actually disappear.

Overall my connection has been far better than what I ever got on Digital Region and is a reason why I have signed up to BT for another year. If it weren't with BT, I would have probably gone with either Plusnet or Sky.

But with past experience of the Digital Region and the numerous problems I had and seeing some people still are receiving similar issues then I won't be back anytime soon.

As I've mentioned on the Sheffield forum, people need to stop saying that BT limit you to 40GB and they throttle this, that and the other. If you haven't had BT Infinity then how do you know what they do/don't do (unless you actually work for them).

BT removed the caps more than a year ago, and they even state the product is unlimited. I've already downloaded over 40GB since 1 Jan 2013 and I'm not a heavy user, with most being around 110GB in a month. My average based on last month is around 60GB.

So if your relatives are on 40GB packages then they would have either requested it or been placed on that package based on usage. But they can ring BT and get switched across to the unlimited packages quite easily.

BT advise that p2p is managed, but who uses it these days, I don't as I don't really have a need for it, so not bothered.

with HTTP and Usenet downloads I have hit 9.32mb/s and sometimes more on my 76mb connection.

Even with PN you can get so much around 250-300GB a month peak-time usage and unlimited off-peak usage for a reasonable price and TBH, the pricing on Digital Region needs to be brought inline with the big players to bring in more custom, but they also need to sort out the current network issues that keep plaguing users.

This post was a little redundant, as I said - there's no other fast broadband option where I live. It's DR or 2Mbps.

**mirdragon** · 17-01-2013, 12:26 PM

(17-01-2013 01:24 AM)Dearne Ranger Wrote:
(15-01-2013 08:04 PM)mirdragon Wrote:
(15-01-2013 09:16 AM)Dearne Ranger Wrote: But of course, people on Infinity (and Infinity 2, and so on) are troubled by packet-shaping, throttling, data transfer caps and all sorts of other nonsense. Some relatives have Infinity 2 at something like 75Mbps - but there's a 40GB limit on their account. What use is that?

Perhaps my DR connection is slower than I might get on Infinity (in a totally hypothetical situation - as Infinity doesn't reach my town!) but I'm willing to trade that off for the no-worries service I get with Origin. If I wanted to leave my machine on all day and night streaming and downloading and seeding and things, I could. (I don't, of course. I go to work, turn off the PC and respect the other network users. But I could, with no worries of letters telling me off.)

I have no problems with packet-shaping, throttling, data transfer caps and all sorts of other nonsense. In fact since moved away from Digital Region and back to BT Infinity 2, I've actually seen packet-shaping, throttling and all other sorts of nonsense that I had while on Digital Region actually disappear.

Overall my connection has been far better than what I ever got on Digital Region and is a reason why I have signed up to BT for another year. If it weren't with BT, I would have probably gone with either Plusnet or Sky.

But with past experience of the Digital Region and the numerous problems I had and seeing some people still are receiving similar issues then I won't be back anytime soon.

As I've mentioned on the Sheffield forum, people need to stop saying that BT limit you to 40GB and they throttle this, that and the other. If you haven't had BT Infinity then how do you know what they do/don't do (unless you actually work for them).

BT removed the caps more than a year ago, and they even state the product is unlimited. I've already downloaded over 40GB since 1 Jan 2013 and I'm not a heavy user, with most being around 110GB in a month. My average based on last month is around 60GB.

So if your relatives are on 40GB packages then they would have either requested it or been placed on that package based on usage. But they can ring BT and get switched across to the unlimited packages quite easily.

BT advise that p2p is managed, but who uses it these days, I don't as I don't really have a need for it, so not bothered.

with HTTP and Usenet downloads I have hit 9.32mb/s and sometimes more on my 76mb connection.

Even with PN you can get so much around 250-300GB a month peak-time usage and unlimited off-peak usage for a reasonable price and TBH, the pricing on Digital Region needs to be brought inline with the big players to bring in more custom, but they also need to sort out the current network issues that keep plaguing users.

This post was a little redundant, as I said - there's no other fast broadband option where I live. It's DR or 2Mbps.

I don't think my post was redundant, you mentioned about caps, throttling and questioning the 40GB limit of which I have addressed all in my post..

alexatkin · (This post was last modified: 17-01-2013 11:25 PM by alexatkin.)

(17-01-2013 12:42 AM)SpencerUk Wrote: Could you not just change package to a 40/10 and just wait it out for the time being. Save a bit of cash since you don't need the bandwidth?

My point was that I don't badly need 100Mbit as 70Mbit is a reasonable speed even for the insane sizes of games off Steam. However 40Mbit WOULD feel too slow.

(17-01-2013 12:42 AM)SpencerUk Wrote: Minimum cost of a grand isn't it?.
Still couldn't justify it myself as you don't know what the future holds property wise.

Yup, I was totally exaggerating.

While it would be nice having peak speeds of 330Mbit or even 160Mbit and not having to worry about sync issues - its pretty clear my line should be able to do 100Mbit without much trouble.

I would happily have my upstream capped at 20Mbit if that brings the stability I need for 100Mbit down.

Now if we had this weather all the time it would be even better as my current stats are:
Max: Upstream rate = 34504 Kbps, Downstream rate = 132276 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 28995 Kbps, Downstream rate = 69993 Kbps

Although they tend to not be much lower than that since the big change in December:
Max: Upstream rate = 28968 Kbps, Downstream rate = 129988 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 28965 Kbps, Downstream rate = 69993 Kbps

12-03-2013, 01:39 AM

Well, I wish I could even get the speed that I sync at... I have max, sync at around 65ish down and 18ish up but only get max of just over 40 down and wait for it.... 2mbit up.

When I first got the line with origin they spent a while trying to sort it out and were unsuccessful. I left it with them, that was 3 months ago. I ended up sending them an email 8 days ago giving them a week to look into the issue again and they have not even bothered to reply.

So, as promised I will be calling them tomorrow to downgrade my package to 40/10 as I may as well save some money as they can't provide the speed I am paying for.

The only time I can get any faster speeds is if I use a protocol with multiple connections - eg torrents (which I don't use at all). I use single connections - FTP mainly. So their 'MAX' is pretty much useless to me.

***Chalky*** · 12-03-2013, 12:00 PM

(12-03-2013 01:39 AM)Romburner Wrote: Well, I wish I could even get the speed that I sync at... I have max, sync at around 65ish down and 18ish up but only get max of just over 40 down and wait for it.... 2mbit up.

When I first got the line with origin they spent a while trying to sort it out and were unsuccessful. I left it with them, that was 3 months ago. I ended up sending them an email 8 days ago giving them a week to look into the issue again and they have not even bothered to reply.

So, as promised I will be calling them tomorrow to downgrade my package to 40/10 as I may as well save some money as they can't provide the speed I am paying for.

The only time I can get any faster speeds is if I use a protocol with multiple connections - eg torrents (which I don't use at all). I use single connections - FTP mainly. So their 'MAX' is pretty much useless to me.

I'm struggling to understand what your issue is to be honest. You have a speed test in your signature showing 62.74 down and 18.46 up which shows that your line is capable and is getting the full service. The speedtest.net service is only using a single connection and that is working fine, you have already said that it runs fine with torrents too.

If you are using FTP and only getting 40 down and 2 up then I would suggest it's more of an issue with the FTP servers you are connecting to. It is possible that those servers are busy or, more likely, have a limit on the connections.

In which case, you can't really blame Origin for that and certainly can't say they are not providing the speed that you are paying for when clearly it is capable of doing so.