Digital Region To Go Bye Bye?

[SpencerUk]

So I was reading the Barnsley Chronicle this weekend and its as some know, its well documented that Digital Region hasn't took off. Looks like sell off plans are already in the works.
I'll take bets now that Sky buy this network to be as part of the Fibre for South Yorkshire

[alexatkin]

What a puzzling article, they seem to be referring to the fact phase 2 is unlikely to happen due to the lack of uptake leaving them without the funds. Considering this was already covered in The Star a few months back I'm puzzled how this is news.

However it also implies the fact phase 2 isn't happening makes the whole network a failure which again makes no sense as phase 2 was always dependent on money earned from phase 1, or have they run out of money to finish phase 1?

Its not like the network has been around that long, did they really expect everyone to instantly switch once the box appeared on their street, especially when it costs up to £75 to be connected? Only the really dedicated net addict is going to pay connections fees when BT are offering connection to Infinity for free.

Also its not like they could just switch off the network as from what I have read practically every school in South Yorkshire is meant to be using Digital Region now. I have also heard it suggested BT may even be piggybacking on the network to offer Infinity in some areas, although this has not been confirmed.

So while I understand they may not have the money to finish the roll out as originally planned, I do not see how that dooms the whole network to failure. They have always said phase 2 depends on if they make enough money during phase 1, so it would be ill advised if phase 1 did not cover the stipulations required for the European money by itself.

[SpencerUk]

What a puzzling article, they seem to be referring to the fact phase 2 is unlikely to happen due to the lack of uptake leaving them without the funds. Considering this was already covered in The Star a few months back I'm puzzled how this is news.

However it also implies the fact phase 2 isn't happening makes the whole network a failure which again makes no sense as phase 2 was always dependent on money earned from phase 1, or have they run out of money to finish phase 1?

Its not like the network has been around that long, did they really expect everyone to instantly switch once the box appeared on their street, especially when it costs up to £75 to be connected? Only the really dedicated net addict is going to pay connections fees when BT are offering connection to Infinity for free.

Also its not like they could just switch off the network as from what I have read practically every school in South Yorkshire is meant to be using Digital Region now. I have also heard it suggested BT may even be piggybacking on the network to offer Infinity in some areas, although this has not been confirmed.

So while I understand they may not have the money to finish the roll out as originally planned, I do not see how that dooms the whole network to failure. They have always said phase 2 depends on if they make enough money during phase 1, so it would be ill advised if phase 1 did not cover the stipulations required for the European money by itself.


I don't think The Star covered anything about extra cash being pumped in by councils.

Phase 1 is pretty much complete from what I know and phase 2 was to be funded by the signups from the former. But non existent marketing has created an issue with that.

I disagree with people not signing up because its new. Look at BT's fibre product, Infinity..The take up on that is far more substancial. Plusnet also have quite a few fibre customers now. It's all down to marketing..something which Digital Region are not doing very well.

Schools and councils are using, doesn't mean that won't change however.

I can't see BT Retail going via DR's network. First off is because most of DR's areas now have a BT Openreach PCP next to it now..Direct competition. Second, why would BT's network route do the following;

EU to DR PCP which goes onto Telus - Then onto BT and then to the net..It's a needless step and not a very cost efficient one at that.

Here are some interesting reads..as late as ever, but far more productive than the recent report

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sou...e-16591345

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/at-a..._1_4148935

Fair enough, its lost money, I expect that when substantial work is being done, but when 3 chief operations exec's go, that's an issue. Another issue is that it isn't self sufficient..something in the current climate will be looked at very hard.

[mirdragon]

I agree they should have done a lot more marketing


I've just moved to BT Infinity from Digital Region and had mailshots and information the minute it became active in our area, not once has there been any for Digital Region.


As the engineer stated they are getting more callups for BT Infinity in the same areas where Digital Region are, all because people know BT and they've seen information on it.


I was told by DR it looked bad for them that I was leaving as a consumer, yet they never done anything about it, even though they were told a month before I left I was going and the reasons why.


Overall the project has been let down by bad advertising and how it was implemented from the start. I think it is too late now to get public interest unless it is made easier for normal users to sign up and get the support they would expect from bigger companies (like Plusnet, Sky, BT, TalkTalk), or they get well know ISP's onboard to promote the network.


It is a shame that it may come to an abrupt end as there is a lot of potential for the network, but if it does raise the question:


'how will consumers/businesses that are correctly connected be affected if it fails'


'what will happen to current isp's already signed up'

[alexatkin]

Its not just that BT and PlusNet are aggressively advertising (which of course they are) though, its also the fact those companies have been around a long time and are recognised which means people (often falsely) trust them.

The years of complaints about the "up to x speed" is evidence enough that people too readily believe what the big companies tell them and even despite feeling lied to, they then get stuck in a "can't be bothered to change" and being told it would cost £50+ fee to switch is hardly going to nudge them over.

Its bad enough paying a fee to connect to cable, or Sky, but at least in those cases you can get everything from that one supplier so there is more value in doing so. If Digital Region had offered comparable TV packages and a proper voice service (VoIP in the street cabinet or at least VoIP built-in to the Cellpipe not requiring additional hardware) then I'm sure that would have helped.

The problem is Digital Region left everything to the ISPs who cannot afford to offset these costs. The cost of entry was just too great, its only relatively recently that ISPs even bothered to include a router, in fact its only recently ISPs even bothered detailing their residential prices.

Its telling that only South Yorkshire based ISPs came on board at all, half of which are brand new purely for Digital Region so taking a huge gamble. Clearly the benefits for bigger companies to join the network were outweighed by the complications and costs.

Let me just do a few quick reviews of the ISPs website to highlight their major problems.

Ask4:
If someone told me Ask4 could provide me with broadband I would promptly go to ask4.com and discover that I need to call or e-mail them to get any indication of if I can get the service or not. No mention is made of VDSL or Digital Region at all. I suspect most people will just leave at this point and look elsewhere.

Only if I Google "ask4 digital region" do I find their tiny, far less impressive looking website. It gives the immediate impression that this is a niche market for them or that they just have no faith in the service at all. Even on that site its a very vague mention of "from £25", you still have to contact them for more information, its like they just can't be bothered.

It doesn't
make me want to buy from them if I cannot see clearly what is on offer
and for how much..

Origin:
At first glance their website is pretty good. However as happened when I first looked at their site, if you come into it from any page that ISN'T the home page, you miss the prices entirely. I went straight to the product pages expecting the prices on there and it never even occurred to me to click the Home link to look there.

Then of course there is the availability checker which is utter garbage. It STILL says my area is not available and even for areas that are listed, it doesn't tell you anything useful as how many people will know what a BSAN is or which one they are connected to? If you can't type your phone number in and get a yes or no answer, they will probably look elsewhere.

I am also hugely put off by Origins Facebook page as it doesn't appear remotely related to the business. I tried asking an ISP related question on there, it was ignored, not cool guys.

Ripwire:
Its impossible to even get a rough idea if you can get the service from the website alone. People do not want to click "order" to find out if they can get it, they want to know BEFORE thinking about ordering.

Also what is this Digital Region that they keep going on about? People do not care HOW they get the service, they just want to know IF they can get it or not. Traditionally that has meant saying "if you have a BT phone line, you can probably get our service", going on about Digital Region is just going to confuse people.

LittleBigOne:
Finally a website that seems to actually be designed for a residential customer. This is what the other ISPs should have done a year ago. My god, the availability checker is not only easy to find but actually works too.

This is likely to be the saving grace of Digital Region, as long as they do not run out of steam. They are clear, concise and actually advertising. I have seen their site popup many times on Google ads lately and they seem to be out there at the local Mall doing promotions.

Its ironic that they actually less of a service than the rest due to having a fair use policy, but then as a more mainstream offering it makes a lot of sense for them to cover their backs here. The other ISPs have to rely on more technically minded, potentially heavy users joining their service - as its not remotely inviting for anyone else. LittleBigOne on the other hand are doing the opposite, something Digital Region badly needs if its going to be around the end of this year.

The sad part is they still suffer the biggest stumbling block that all Digital Region ISPs have, how to sell a Broadband and Voice package with a £92 setup fee and £25/month when BT (inc BT Vision) is £40 setup and £18/month.

Digital Region badly need to write off this set up fee if they want to get people on the network, they should be able to more than make it back on a 12 or 18 month contract. Clearly none of the ISPs can afford to do so, and while Origin gets close by offering to spread it over the first three months, its only if you ask that you will know that as the website makes no mention of it.

Bottom line, the none technically minded are not going to know or care what Digital Region is and will be turned off by the setup fee as the ISPs appear to be offering less than Inifinity for a lot more money. Sure the reality is that is not true at all, but clearly the network cannot survive on technically savvy users alone.

[mirdragon]

well said alex,

i told digital region on the 21st december i was leaving after 3 weeks to find out that they couldn't provide a mac to move. I told them the reason was because of the huge costs in paying to move from one provider to another.

I got a call the same night from BT offering me Infinity and to help me move without much downtime we went down the route of getting a new number - the install was free and as you say £40 for BT Vision which you paid when you activate it. If you don't take Vision then you don't have to pay that.

I spent over an hour on the phone with them, I was also in contact with one of their moderator's who gave advice about the install and even contacted me on numerous occassions to see how things were progressing.

BT delivered a new homehub, bt vision box, powerline adapters and when engineer came he brought the modem. All the equipment is free and doesn't have to be returned like it does with Digital Region.

Digital Region never bothered contacting me after I told them I was leaving the network, then on the friday before I moved I got a call from Origin asking me about moving to them. I ended up turning them down. I then heard they had told Ripwire that I was moving to them.

When I left Digital Region I emailed them and told them the reasons I was leaving and when received their reply about it looking bad for Digital Region for a consumer to leave, it makes me think well why didn't they do something if they were that concerned about it looking bad....

They need to start advertising like BT do for the average consumer and supply them with all the kit and possibly the engineers to install it for them, until such time then they will fail on the consumer side, which is a shame as there is lots of potential for the service.

[alexatkin]

Another thing all these doom and gloom articles seem to miss is the fact Digital Region were almost a year late enabling the Intake exchange and no doubt others too.

Seeing as Intake is one the biggest residential exchanges in Sheffield (I even recall some suggestion its THE biggest) then it only makes sense they are a year behind in their projected income from residential subscriptions. Its not that the network is unpopular, its that adoption is a year behind track.

Now combine that with a lack of advertising and the setup price, you are asking for the network adoption to move at a snails pace. Lets also not forget, Netflix only just launched over here and its giving my connection a real workout. A matter of weeks ago, there wasn't much use for 40Mbit as things like Linux repos and PS3/Xbox downloads are so busy at peak times you get 5Mbit at best, PS3/Xbox only seems to hit 17Mbit best case. So there was little incentive for people to switch to Digital Region.

The setup price really is a huge issue though, a friend of mine wanted to get Digital Region from the start but he cannot rationalise paying £50 to switch over when his 3Mbit Sky connection is "good enough". Remove the fee and its worth the gamble, but it seems Digital Region were just hoping a big ISP would come on board who could afford to absorb the setup fee themselves. Trouble is they had no contingency plan when that failed to happen, bad planning all round.

[GigabitG]

Though I knew of the others providing the connection, they never stood out when it came to adverts and LB1 did and that's one of the reasons I went with them.

Now for BT & Plusnet (Plusnet is owned by BT), Plusnet isn't a direct competitor to BT, as it's BT's sister company after being purchased in the late 2007 early 2008 and have since pretty much had access to BT network without to much of a fuss.

Talk Talk & Sky will only be offering the FTTC over the SLU, as that's all BT will allow them to have access to, you won't see any major network updates from either of these and pretty much will find the cost going up, unless OfCom's propsal goes through and BT are forced to lower their wholesale (I don't see why they should, after all BT have put billions into "Their" network).

The setup costs are very expensive and unfortunately I have no other choice but to join DR and not BT, after all my exchange isn't FTTC enabled and there certainly have no plans to in the near future. I feel that since the roll out of the DR network, that in outer city areas that are not populated by business and are more residential, that the up take on this will be next to none, as the only reason I know about DR is because I worked for a DR partner.

So the lack of interest actually lays with DR and it's marketing team and without the market to advertise, then the DR network will eventually be bought out by BT (It's inevitable and will happen) and a big fat increase in council tax will happen to cover the loses. I am now wishing I had stayed with sky and just put up with the endless crap until BT make my exchange FTTC compliant.

[SpencerUk]

I personally see this network being put our for tender and either

• Virgin Media
• TalkTalk
• BT Openreach
• Kingston Communications

Will put a bid in within 12/8 months. This is the make of break year really for the Digital Region network.
I don't regret moving onto Digital Region. The benefits short term have far outweighed the negatives and being honest, if the project was managed properly, would probably have been in better light.
BT and FTTC is a touchy subject. I keep reading comments on forums and blogs saying it's not fair there exchange isn't fibre enabled, etc etc.
BT is a business, not a charity. That exchange has to be profitable for them to justify the cost. Everyone thinks its about the amount of people at an exchange. It's nothing of the sort. Things such as;

• Planning permission to build new cabs
• End user requirements
• Capacity
• Cost
• etc

If people want fibre that badly, then instead of moaning, they need to build a constructive case. Some place in Wales is a good example of that. BT wouldn't put down fibre so they raised money and have their own private network.

[GigabitG]

Apparently in some of the areas that have DRL Cabs and not BT cabs, the council actually turned down BT's planning permission. Which doesn't shock me in the slightest at all, as I remember when "Telewest" laid cable lines in Chesterfield, the council said by all means lay them but they don't go to the property and now they have had to go back on that, as OfCom had over rulled them with regards to it. Though this was down to the fact, that BT did put a lot of money in to the back pockets of many of the councillors in Chesterfield.